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1994-03-13
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Apparently-To: john.smith@gravis.com
GUS Programmer's Digest Sat, 12 Mar 94 15:14 PST Volume 9: Issue 27
Today's Topics:
Clipping
Clipping math
How to use bank 1, 2, 3 etc
Looking for file formats...
Postscript GUSDK
ps-format (2 msgs)
PS Format
Standard Info:
- Meta-info about the GUS can be found at the end of the Digest.
- Before you ask a question, please READ THE FAQ.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 19:28:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Phat H Tran <ptran@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Clipping
> Date: 9 Mar 94 08:06:00 MET
> From: "VISX80::GRECNER" <GRECNER%VISX80.decnet@musx53.zfe.siemens.de>
> Subject: Re: clipping
>
> >make it clip both in the digital and analog domain. However, if you cant
> >learn to mix properly on the GUS, you'd have the same problem on an analog
> >setup with a mixer. Even if you can get an analog limiter, it is a bad
>
> I can't agree here. Analog mixers have much greater dynamic range. It's
> not the same result if I reduce 16-bit sample to 8-bits and if I turn
> the mix volume on an analog synth down to get the same dB effect.
Yes, it is. The noise floor doesn't go down with the signal when you
lower the volume. If, for example, you lower the volume on one amp,
and then amplify its output so that it's as loud as the original volume,
you'll notice a lower SNR.
> >Why not?? If you had 32 16 bit DACs connected to a mixer and drove all of
> >them peak to peak, you'd get clipping in analog. Either you add voltages
> >or values, the result is the same. In analog, you are limited to 2 volts,
> >in digital 16 bits. As simple as that. There is no way to avoid this
> >limit.
>
> I really don't think it's the same. If you are limited to 2 volts, you
> still have virtually infinite number of "steps" from 0 to 2 volts. In
Except that noise imposes a limit on how small these steps can be
before they are irresolvable from the background hiss. The "bit
resolution" of analog mixing is determined by the noise floor.
> Date: 9 Mar 94 08:26:00 MET
> From: "VISX80::GRECNER" <GRECNER%VISX80.decnet@musx53.zfe.siemens.de>
> Subject: Re[2]: clipping
>
[...]
> >11 bits, that is probably closer to its real-life dynamic range, and
> >we should think of the 16 bits as extra headroom for cases when instruments
> >pile up on top of each other and the amplitude is reinforced.
>
> Well, that's what we're left with. :-(
>
We'd be left with 11 bits for each voice_if_ the GUS divides down
the voices. But since it doesn't, changes in even the 5 least
significant bits of each voice will show up in the output.
Phat.
------------------------------
Date: 11 Mar 94 08:43:00 MET
From: "VISX80::GRECNER" <GRECNER%VISX80.decnet@musx53.zfe.siemens.de>
Subject: Clipping math
>To bore you with the math behind it:
>dynamic range = 20 * Log(10) of (Loudest signal/quietest signal)
>16 bit dynamic range = 20 * Log(10) (65536/1) = 96.33 db
>65536 is the largest number you get from a 16 bit value.
It's not boring me :-). I know the math. But one question comes in my
mind now. When you have 2 volt output, does it mean +- 2volts, or +-
1volt sine ? And havine 65536 levels in digital, does it mean 0 to
65536, or +- 32765 sine ? Then the result would be 90 dB only... But
this is just a question, in principal you're right saying there is a
noise problem on analog, but I'm not quite sure if there isn't an
analog part on GUS as well... ;-) I didn't measure the output yet, but
let's assume there is 1 volt line out. Then you have 1/65536 volts
here either... That's still 96 dB (but in one output, of course, no
mix required, that's true). So we have noise here, as well. And I
suspect much more noise here then in studio mixers. But what I vanted
to say was the difference between analog and digital concearning the
sampling harmonic distortion in quiet signals. In music you have to
think about dynamic range as capability of device to play very silent
and on the other side very loud music parts. But you have the linear
distortion in transistor pairs as well, so it really depends on the
price.
All this discussion started because I was asking if the GUS
has more than 16-bit DAC as use other proffesional digital devices
such as samplers, and the answer was NO, IT HAS 16-bit DAC ONLY,
BUT... And then started discussion, if really there are devices which
have wider DACs (I'm quite possitive about this fact), if it's of any
use to have more bits and so on. People were just affraid I'm going to
give a bad mark to GUS :-). And I was just asking. One thing is true.
I found supplied patches in combination with supplied MIDI driver
sounding no dynamic enough, especially drums, and I'm unable to make
it sound good using volume sliders in this MidiSoft software. When I
listen to Ensoniq EPS-16+ sampler, it sounds really amazing. So after
this long discussion I'll stop to blame GUS HW, and try to build my
own SW to make it sound better. I'll start with transferring Ensoniq
drum sets to it. If it only had effects... Then, I plan to write my
own MIDI driver, capable of using Ensoniq patches directly. Problem is
that they are very large and use more layers and so on, so the
standard GUS driver can't use their full potential. But, I've got no
MS Windows DDK and I found noone having experience with writing
Windows drivers without it. But I'm sure it's no problem, one has only
to know message formats passed to the driver and back and some
interrupt service problems. I've tried to ask this in win3-l group
(got an answer from Yossi there saying I should use the DDK :-) ), but
they seem to be more interested in Visual Basic and MS Access then
programming.
If ther's anyone who can program Windows MIDI drivers, please
let me know.
So, at this point, I'd like to stop this clipping discussion. Clipping
is there, we must live with it. Thats resume.
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 94 21:12:54 GMT
From: rhofboer@knoware.nl (Rogier Hofboer)
Subject: How to use bank 1, 2, 3 etc
>To: gus-music@mail.orst.edu
>From: rhofboer@knoware.nl (Rogier Hofboer)
>Subject: How to use bank 1, 2, 3 etc
>Cc:
>Bcc:
>X-Attachments:
>
>When I have installed more banks than only Bank 0,
>I can't get to them. When I change banks in Cakewalk, or Recording Session
>I keep getting Bank 0.
>
>I've installed the bank properly, because emixer.exe recognizes it and
>can load the patches from it. Back in my music program I can't access them
>
>The Patchmanager also doesn't support more Banks. So maybe the current
>GUS-drivers don't support this.
>
>Hmm funny, I can make samples with Gus (not the best but it is possible)
>..Stil waiting for the 16-Bit board....
>I can make patches out of them (even multisampled) with Patchmaker,
>and now I can't use them (or I'll have to replace existing patches)
>
>The best thing would be a Patchmanager that shows all the instrument numbers,
>when you click on one of them you get a file-list-box and you can walk to
>the Dirs to find the .PAT file you want to load on that instrument number,
>click on it and the loading is done. A database in wich you can store loaded
>configurations is also something that would be nice then.
>
>For Patch-Caching apps, there has to be a list with all the .PAT files with
>the intrument numbers -> The ULTRASND.INI file. Since I'm making
>house, swing-beat and rap music. I can't always use the GM-patches.
>So I can't use patch-caching apps.
>
>If someone is can make this sort of patch-manager
>It would be really really nice. (I don't know how to do it)
>Cubase Windows doesn't support Patch-Caching yet :-))) and I like that program
>most. But before I buy it I want to have it all work.
>
>I think also that in the future (more people want the patchmanager
described above) there has to be a Patchmanager like it is now. And
>the one above described. Windows-Midi Programs also must have a
>option to switch the patch-caching on and off.
>
>Okay, there are people longing for Patch-Caching-Aware-Apps, I want to get
>rid of this method, and want to use my GUS as a MIDI sampler and not as
>a GM module.
>
>Greetings, Rogier
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
internet : rhofboer@knoware.nl fidonet : Rogier Hofboer @ 2:512/34
adress : Boschstraat 11 zip-code : 6921 MB
city : Duiven country : Netherlands
tel : +31-(0)8367-65202 fax : +31-(0)8367-66446
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 1994 13:58:07 -0400 (AST)
From: Jurassic Mark <markus@info.umoncton.ca>
Subject: Looking for file formats...
GUS day people,
I need the specifications for the following file formats:
VOC, WAV, SND and AU. If anyone can point me to a FTP site or send me
the info about these formats, please do. I really really really need them.
Thanks in advance,
Marc Y. Paulin - Jurassic Mark (Usenet) - J-Mark (IRC)
Graduating CS student in search of a job...
- markus@clement.info.umoncton.ca (Talk 'n Mail) - (506)856-9518 -
Inertia Player Beta Tester - Author of the G-List for Ultrasound owners
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 23:15:19 -0700 (MST)
From: "Shawn T. Rutledge" <rutledge@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu>
Subject: Postscript GUSDK
> From: KARL ERIK ASBJcRNSEN <KARLEA@stud.sarpih.no>
> Subject: ps-format
>
> This has nothing to do with GUS, but a friend of mine has the GUS-sdk
> packed down in PS-format. Anyone knows how to un-PS?
Ghostscript is a shareware program that allows an hp-compatible laser
(and maybe others as well) to print postscript files. You can
probably ftp it somewhere. I also used to have a Windows version that
would just let you view a postscript file in a window, but you
couldn't print from it. Both programs were a real kludge to use, but
workable with some fiddling. Or you can just send the ps file to an
Apple Laserwriter...
--
_______ KB7PWD
(_ | |_) shawn.rutledge@asu.edu
__) | | \__________________________________________________________________
* anti-Macintosh * IEEE * electronics * cyberspace * Internet * ham radio *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 94 21:08:32 EST
From: dulimart@cps.msu.edu (Hansye S. Dulimarta)
Subject: ps-format
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 1994 15:51:42 -1
From: KARL ERIK ASBJcRNSEN <KARLEA@stud.sarpih.no>
This has nothing to do with GUS, but a friend of mine has the GUS-sdk
packed down in PS-format. Anyone knows how to un-PS?
Thanks...
As far as I know, to "un-PS" a PS file is to print it or preview it.
Hans.
+------------------------------------------+
| Karl Erik Asbjornsen |
| EMAIL: karlea@stud.sarpih.no |
| Snailmail: Raakilvn 49, N-1710 Sarpsborg |
| IRC: bare |
+------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 11 Mar 94 08:54:00 MET
From: "VISX80::GRECNER" <GRECNER%VISX80.decnet@musx53.zfe.siemens.de>
Subject: Re: ps-format
>This has nothing to do with GUS, but a friend of mine has the GUS-sdk
>packed down in PS-format. Anyone knows how to un-PS?
Isn't it a documantation in PostScript ? Look in the file, if it
says PostScript somewhere in the beginning, you've got it...
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 94 9:22:38 CST
From: umcoyne0@cc.umanitoba.ca
Subject: Re: PS Format
Dump that .PS file to some kind of postscript printer. A Mac would do it
nicely, and so would a Unix system with a PostScript printer. IBMs with
PS printers are not uncommon either... you can't view it however--it's
basically a bunch of instructions in the PostScript language.
Michael
------------------------------
End of GUS Programmer's Digest V9 #27
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